Giants - M. Alou = Screwed

[onion]

exactly. silver sluggers ought to be the more respected award, but for some reason (that reason being that GGs have been around longer (i think)), golden gloves get more attention. i only say this cause people do respect sluggers much more than glove man (and by "people" i do not necessarily mean you, and certainly not me). if silver slugger was a bigger deal, then they could go ahead and give the gold glove to a guy who was really good in the field. you still wouldn't be likely to see any GGer batting .220, but i think you'd eliminate the puj's and a-rods from argument. they'd have their SS, who needs a GG? it would also be a really big deal when someone won both.

[retep]

They are different! Golden GLOVE! GLOVE! Notice and imporant word in there? Both should be great honors, but they are not when they get confused with each other.

[Blancito21]

Some thoughts:

1. Peter I don't understand how a Giants fan can bring up age in an argument. It's laughable.

2. While Pujols is much improved defensively, as long as Lee and Helton are in the league, it should be between those two every year. By the way, I don't think JT Snow's bat ever played a role in him winning his Gold Gloves. The dude was an absolute vacuum. Didn't Doug Mienkwijcksncsd win a ton of Gold Gloves with hurrendous offensive stats? I could name plenty of others but you guys are right in this day and age it seems like all Gold Glovers also have astronomical offensive numbers.

3. Pedro Feliz??? Are we really discussing the defensive prowess of Pedro Feliz??? He is widely known in baseball as a defensive liability wherever he plays. Don't let his offensive spurts fool you. Before you call me out, the Yanks are atrocious defensively, I know.

4. I hate A-Rod. I've never seen anyone take more opportunities to create poster shots for himself. If he squints his eyes, looks ino the stands/horizon and puffs his cheeks one more time I'm going to lose it!!!! What a choke artist!!!

[tallguy]

Dan, Dan, Dan. You're so wrong it's funny. Have you actually watched any Giants games this year?

From MLB.com I got some stats regarding third basemen. Of those who have started at least 30 games so far, the following are selections from a list by fielding percentage for 2006:

1-- Eric Chavez

...some other guys of no interest to us...

8-- Pedro Feliz

OK, now I grant you fielding percentage is not a perfect descriptor of "fielding prowess", but it is a good indicator at the least. SO, number 8 in all of baseball for 2006 is hardly "defensive liability". By any stretch.
Notice who is leading the Allstar voting for 3B: Rolen, who is 16th on that list.

By the way, before you say, OK, he's doing better than he usually does so far this year, he'll probably drop off, check this out:
(for 2005, third basemen who started at least 50 games)
1) Mike Lowell
...
9) Pedro Feliz
...
11) Edgar Alfonzo
...
14) Eric Chavez

QED, bitches!

[retep]

Some thoughts:
1. Peter I don't understand how a Giants fan can bring up age in an argument. It's laughable.

Maybe I can bring it up because I know how age can make a team suck.

2. While Pujols is much improved defensively, as long as Lee and Helton are in the league, it should be between those two every year. By the way, I don't think JT Snow's bat ever played a role in him winning his Gold Gloves. The dude was an absolute vacuum. Didn't Doug Mienkwijcksncsd win a ton of Gold Gloves with hurrendous offensive stats?

Mientkiewicz won the award once, in 2001. And guess what? That year he had career highs in AVG (.306) HR (15) RBI (74) Runs (77) Hits (166) & SLG (.464). Well, there goes that!

3. Pedro Feliz??? Are we really discussing the defensive prowess of Pedro Feliz??? He is widely known in baseball as a defensive liability wherever he plays. Don't let his offensive spurts fool you.

Yeah, tell us how many Giant games you've watched this year. He was not very good before, yes, because they had him playing at 5 different positions (1B, 3B, SS, LF, & RF) as a part time player. How the hell could anyone get good at it. But fans knew he always had an arm. Yes, players can grow and improve.

4. I hate A-Rod. I've never seen anyone take more opportunities to create poster shots for himself. If he squints his eyes, looks ino the stands/horizon and puffs his cheeks one more time I'm going to lose it!!!! What a choke artist!!!

You could by a few Pedro's with that, and have money left over to buy a starter.

[Baseball=Life]

A-rod's awesome, what are you talking about?!?! But then again, I like Bonds, Pierzynski, etc. Really, the only way a baseball player can piss me off is if I hear him talking conservative shit--that always sucks (kkkurt schilling, todd jones, john rocker etc).

These guys can fucking wear ballerina suits, get manicures, pose in front of the mirror for hours on end, speak about themselves in the third person, ignore the media and/or fans, etc.... they can do all this shit and I couldn't care less.

I pay to see them play baseball, I could give a fuck about all else. And I think the concept of clutch-hitting is overrated (the other a-rod criticism).

[Blancito21]

Age hasn't made the Yankees suck so speak for your own squad.


Players can grow and improve huh? Isn't that what I said about Pujols? Maybe the question should be how many Cardinals' games have you watched? I've probably watched more Giants games than you have this year since I can't imagine you having time to watch a game when you're too involved with work to come play on a Sunday morning. I only watch the Giants since I can't watch the Yanks and I hate the A's. Feliz improved? No doubt. Good defensively...give me a full year first.

Paul, Rolen is regarded as possibly the greatest defensive 3rd baseman of all time so the fact that he's 16th right now should tell you how accurate those numbers are.

You got me on the Mientkiewicz thing. He only won once and the year he had career numbers? Point taken. Was it Palmeiro who got those all the time in the AL? Mientky should have gotten tons.

Scott, I agree with you but in A-Rod's case I pay to watch him carry the Yanks when they need him and he rarely does that. He's a numbers padder against the lower level teams and he blows against the contenders. You wanna do all the marketing and media shit fine, but when it's the eigth inning, in a 1 run game against the A's and the go ahead run is on second...get a fuckin hit. Don't ground out to the SS or K!!!! Same with the Sox (Red & White), same with the Mets. If it was the Royals or the Mariners, he'd hit a bomb.

That my friend is the epitome of unclutch. I know you worship at the altar of Beane and he has his opinion on clutch being some sort of media driven ideology which has no quantitative value and is determined only by luck and circumstances outside your control. Bullshit. Big Papi is freakin' clutch!!! Matsui is clutch!! Kim not clutch!! (How many of us knew he'd give up 715?) Tejada clutch!!! Benitez not clutch!!! Schilling as much as I hate him for many of the reasons you do ...clutch!!! A-Rod not CLUTCH!!!Think of how you view these players and the moments you remember them for and you will know why clutch exists. We are human, not eveything can be put on a spreadsheet because the game revolves around numbers. Pressure and late inning situations are real and some players prove time and time again that they have an unnatural ability to disregard the tension and perform, others can't. It is visible from the moment sports become really competitive in high school straight to the pros. If you've played organized sports, not necessarily baseball, for actual championships, you shold know the feeling and the moments I'm describing. It is a wonderful feeling when you succeed and demoralizing when you don't. It swallows you up and comppounds with similar moments you continue to find yourself in game after game after game.

PS: Feliz doesn't fit the Yanks mold because of his free swingin ways so no thanks on multiple Pedro's & a starter for A-Rod.

[retep]

Age hasn't made the Yankees suck so speak for your own squad.

Well, this is what I mean. I think the Red Sox were better off with Crisp vs. Damon (don't mention the injury: you can't predict those in many cases). I would take Willis over Johnson. I'm not saying that they have picked bad players at all: I am saying that their recent "win-now" mentality has prevented them from doing just that. in the 1990s, they took good young talent and made a machine, which is far different than getting older talent--far more expensive talent, and much more fragile--to fill heir voids.

It's a bad idea, and the Giants do it was well. I wish we tried to get Crisp over Finely, or get thoe guys from Tampa's bullpen like LA did, rather than getting Worell and Kline.

Players can grow and improve huh? Isn't that what I said about Pujols? Maybe the question should be how many Cardinals' games have you watched?

Again, I am not saying that Pujols isn't good. What I am saying is that his defense gets FAR more attention because of hit hitting. I've seen Pujols on "Baseball Tonight" with a web gem for getting ona knee and stopping a ball. For Mientkiewicz to get on, he has to dance a charelston backwards first.

I've probably watched more Giants games than you have this year since I can't imagine you having time to watch a game when you're too involved with work to come play on a Sunday morning.

Well, most Giant games are on ay 7pm. My work is done then. Ask anyone who has worked in campaign what time is more improant: 7pm on a weekday, or noon on a weekend? Yeah, thanks.

PS: Feliz doesn't fit the Yanks mold because of his free swingin ways so no thanks on multiple Pedro's & a starter for A-Rod.

It was a joke to draw attention to how much bang you are all getting for your buck.

[Blancito21]

Peter, I know when the brunt of campaign work take place. The Mayor's aide in New Haven is my best friend. I was just responding to your assumption that I don't watch any Giants games.

Your age and financial arguments are being proven. Currently the infusion of cheap youth the Yankees have is coinciding with their hot streak. I hope it all plays out like the 90's but....whether they're doing it this way or Steingrabber's way, I don't care as long as they win.