WBC dominican team
even if the o's have some decent pitching (which i doubt) it doesnt matter if your catcher cant catch. that was by far the most embarresing ways to lose a game. oh i meant the passed ball in the domican vs venezula game. talk about unclutch. so unless the o's get it together they wont get higher than 4th place in the al east. which means they will be the 3rd worse team in the al. those chumps.
So long, and thanks for all the fish. - Douglas Adams
that last thought aside (i was gonna argue, but then realized that they were the fourth worst team in the AL last year. well, maybe fifth or sixth.), one passed ball, even with the go ahead run on third, does not a bad catcher make. come on, seriously. you've seen the guy. he can catch. i'm not worried about him, although folks in baltimore make it sound like the guy's an all-star with the bat. they think he's gonna hit .280 with twenty some home runs. i have no idea why. he hits well, for a catcher, but that's it. anyway, the whole plan next year is pitching, defense, and tejada. maybe i'm crazy, but i thought most teams had more than one run producer. sigh. go gibbons? conine? javy? why not delgado. stupid fucks.
notice who the pitching star was for the DR? yup, that's another oriole pitcher dominating in the WBC. shame the position players haven't done shit, 'cept a game loosing pass ball.
notice who the pitching star was for the DR? yup, that's another oriole pitcher dominating in the WBC. shame the position players haven't done shit, 'cept a game loosing pass ball.
really when did the oriles sign bartolo colon i must have missed that. or was miguel batista but i dont recall that either. or do you mean pedro martinez but he didnt play on the team.
well batista isnt great but i might take him over caberra. they are both on horrible teams. and both do "good" by their teams standards. and werent you the one who was ranting about you cant trust a rookie to repeat sucess. it takes time to develop into a star??? so the o's have some guys who were promising in their farm system. whatever. the al east farm clubs are a joke
NYY - their farm system is the free agency market
BOS- their farm system is also the free agency market just a few million less. oh yea and the dominican
TAM- their mlb club is their farm system and look at how good they are
TOR- who the fuck cares about canada
well batista isnt great but i might take him over caberra. they are both on horrible teams. and both do "good" by their teams standards. and werent you the one who was ranting about you cant trust a rookie to repeat sucess. it takes time to develop into a star??? so the o's have some guys who were promising in their farm system. whatever. the al east farm clubs are a joke
NYY - their farm system is the free agency market
BOS- their farm system is also the free agency market just a few million less. oh yea and the dominican
TAM- their mlb club is their farm system and look at how good they are
TOR- who the fuck cares about canada
So long, and thanks for all the fish. - Douglas Adams
that last sentence was bullshit. all five of the al east teams have at least decent farm systems. i wouldn't really say that baltimore has a good farm system (though it's nowhere near as bad as it was just a few years ago). what they do have is good pitching prospects. watch out for cabrera. billy wanted him, and was ready to take him straight up (or almost straight up) for hudson or zito. i'm not counting on him to repeat his success, because he hasn't really had success. his two years (i believe) have been just decent. this is his third year. let's see what he does.
i'm not gonna go down the line again, but i think the success the o's pitchers have had in the WBC does mean something. there are a few guys with their necks on the line, and if they falter there are a few more just waiting for the chance. the starters as a group will be a strength (although the bullpen's gone. it aint total crap, but doesn't exactly inspire confidence). i would take their starters as a staff over most other staffs in the game. of course, i'm not including oakland. you're gonna be surprised. i won't say the team won't suck, cause how much can tejada do? is he gonna come outta the bullpen too? the starters at least are something to feel good about. i guess they have most of a lineup too, but the outfield still stinks. get a real cleanup hitter (or even #5 (as it stands, tejada's 4th with mora batting 3rd)) and they have a real team. now where's delgado?
just so you know, this is how they did.
chen 5 ip 4 h 2 r 1 bb 3 k
cabrera 7.3 ip 3 h 1 r 2 bb 9 k
bedard 4 ip 2 h 0 r 2 bb 6 k
loewen 3.6 ip 2 h 0 r 3 bb
lopez 7.0 6 h 3 r 1 bb 4 k
total 27 ip 14 h 6 r 9 bb 22 k 2.00 era 7 1/3 k/9
take lopez out (who's not really a big part of the picture (though he may be the opening day starter)) and they're
20 ip 8 h 3 r 8 bb 18 k 1.35 era 8.1 k/9
that's pretty decent, and if it weren't for the fact that this is 20 innings, so i really don't give a shit, i'd be thrilled.
so, this has almost nothing to do with the DR team, which i believe was the source of this thread. oh well.
i'm not gonna go down the line again, but i think the success the o's pitchers have had in the WBC does mean something. there are a few guys with their necks on the line, and if they falter there are a few more just waiting for the chance. the starters as a group will be a strength (although the bullpen's gone. it aint total crap, but doesn't exactly inspire confidence). i would take their starters as a staff over most other staffs in the game. of course, i'm not including oakland. you're gonna be surprised. i won't say the team won't suck, cause how much can tejada do? is he gonna come outta the bullpen too? the starters at least are something to feel good about. i guess they have most of a lineup too, but the outfield still stinks. get a real cleanup hitter (or even #5 (as it stands, tejada's 4th with mora batting 3rd)) and they have a real team. now where's delgado?
just so you know, this is how they did.
chen 5 ip 4 h 2 r 1 bb 3 k
cabrera 7.3 ip 3 h 1 r 2 bb 9 k
bedard 4 ip 2 h 0 r 2 bb 6 k
loewen 3.6 ip 2 h 0 r 3 bb
lopez 7.0 6 h 3 r 1 bb 4 k
total 27 ip 14 h 6 r 9 bb 22 k 2.00 era 7 1/3 k/9
take lopez out (who's not really a big part of the picture (though he may be the opening day starter)) and they're
20 ip 8 h 3 r 8 bb 18 k 1.35 era 8.1 k/9
that's pretty decent, and if it weren't for the fact that this is 20 innings, so i really don't give a shit, i'd be thrilled.
so, this has almost nothing to do with the DR team, which i believe was the source of this thread. oh well.
NYY - their farm system is the free agency market
BOS- their farm system is also the free agency market just a few million less. oh yea and the dominican
TAM- their mlb club is their farm system and look at how good they are
TOR- who the fuck cares about canada[/quote]
NYY - are you smoking rock? bernie williams, derek jeter, mariano rivera, pesada, soriano, what's his face, their new 2B, and lately, the pitcher of the month. every damn time they have an empty space some kid comes up and plays like a star. it's fucking insane.
BOS- again. bullshit. they don't exactly have the best system, but there's talent in there, and they will occasionally use it. more often than not they trade guys for ML talent.
TAM - they do have a good minor league system, they just don't have a major league club. they're producing some damn good players, just not enough to stock a 25 man roster. crawford, baldelli, huff, and a good pile of pitchers.
TOR - well, you have a good argument there. they do actually have a decent system. nothing spectacular (save maybe vernon wells (and they're supposed to have one of the best pitching prospects in the game. i forget his name), but there are a whole host of good ML caliber players.
the fact that the yanks and sox make frequent use of the free agent market doesn't mean they don't have a good system. in fact, while they certainly block player's advancement, because they don't have to use guys before they are ready, they have a greater success rate. i still can't believe you don't think the yankees have a farm system. the yankees own the world. they have it all. evil empire.
BOS- their farm system is also the free agency market just a few million less. oh yea and the dominican
TAM- their mlb club is their farm system and look at how good they are
TOR- who the fuck cares about canada[/quote]
NYY - are you smoking rock? bernie williams, derek jeter, mariano rivera, pesada, soriano, what's his face, their new 2B, and lately, the pitcher of the month. every damn time they have an empty space some kid comes up and plays like a star. it's fucking insane.
BOS- again. bullshit. they don't exactly have the best system, but there's talent in there, and they will occasionally use it. more often than not they trade guys for ML talent.
TAM - they do have a good minor league system, they just don't have a major league club. they're producing some damn good players, just not enough to stock a 25 man roster. crawford, baldelli, huff, and a good pile of pitchers.
TOR - well, you have a good argument there. they do actually have a decent system. nothing spectacular (save maybe vernon wells (and they're supposed to have one of the best pitching prospects in the game. i forget his name), but there are a whole host of good ML caliber players.
the fact that the yanks and sox make frequent use of the free agent market doesn't mean they don't have a good system. in fact, while they certainly block player's advancement, because they don't have to use guys before they are ready, they have a greater success rate. i still can't believe you don't think the yankees have a farm system. the yankees own the world. they have it all. evil empire.
so the have a better farm system than i gave them credit for. but they dont "farm a team" they go down to the free agent supermarket, spend money to buy the store then loot, rape, and pillage. then they burn the damn store down and walk to the next.
ok posada is falling a part while he is still good he isnt "yankee calibur"
soraino was good an a yank for a moment before trading to get pay-rod
willaims is now a bench warmer for damon. not to say he cant playonce again not yankee calibur anymore. the yank just feel they need the best everything, like 4th outfielder on any other team he would start
again i may have been to harsh but when you spend 250+ million a year who the fuck cares about a farm system. they might as well have one of us there we aint getting the call. while they do bring up a star every 2 years. they are the only club in the game who doesnt need a farm system. as in if they didnt have jeter they would have, if they didnt have rivera they would have farnsworth, if they didnt have williams they have damon, if they didnt have smalls they have randy johnson. thats all im saying
ok posada is falling a part while he is still good he isnt "yankee calibur"
soraino was good an a yank for a moment before trading to get pay-rod
willaims is now a bench warmer for damon. not to say he cant playonce again not yankee calibur anymore. the yank just feel they need the best everything, like 4th outfielder on any other team he would start
again i may have been to harsh but when you spend 250+ million a year who the fuck cares about a farm system. they might as well have one of us there we aint getting the call. while they do bring up a star every 2 years. they are the only club in the game who doesnt need a farm system. as in if they didnt have jeter they would have, if they didnt have rivera they would have farnsworth, if they didnt have williams they have damon, if they didnt have smalls they have randy johnson. thats all im saying
So long, and thanks for all the fish. - Douglas Adams
dude, you're kinda right that the yanks don't really need a farm system, but it sure helps 'em out. BOS and NYY definately operate like you describe concerning the free agent market. they don't have rebuilding years. they want proven players. still, the fact that they have a decent system helps them get this proven talent. just because they're not using the players out of their system doesn't mean that it's not a great asset to them. check out that sentence structure, but you get what i mean. soriano's a great example. that's how they got a-rod. effectively, you can thank the yank's farm system for being able to get a-rod. now, this is kind of a bad example, because soriano wasn't a drafted player who came through the ranks. they picked him up out of japan and he didn't spend much time in the minors. still, they signed him, and he wasn't major league talent, so the farm system gets some credit.
back in the late nineties the o's tried to operate the way the sox and the yanks do. they wanted proven talent, and were willing to pay for it. problem is that, unlike the other two teams, they didn't have unlimeted budgets. when shit went wrong (albert belle=degenerative hip condition, will clark=old and shitty, roberto alamar=obnoxious snot who lost all skills, cal ripken=grandfather, starting pitcher=all washed up (rick helling!), bullpen=nonexistant, they were all on the DL) they couldn't fix it. they couldn't just sign more sluggers, as the money they already owed was substantial (belle alone cost them over fifty million dollars just for the time he didn't play). so, they cut bait. syd thrift (fuckin' crazy old man. he's fun.) came on and they sold everyone off. so started a long and very painful rebuilding process (going on eight years now). it's a process based on getting the farm system back in order. since the early nineties it was seriously one of the worst in the game. once upon a time they had one of the best in the game. it takes a long time to turn that around. bad luck with pitching injuries and losing out on top draft picks has hurt, but they're finally turning the corner. while you know that pitching is strong, there is still a deficientcy of position players. this kinda makes sense to me. i'd rather spend eight mil on a position player who's playing everyday than a starter who's one of five. it's a lot easier to find quality position players. i'd love to see the o's come up with a big bat out of the system (which they might have. there's this greek kid who's tearin' it up. we'll see.), but so long as they've got a stable rotation, they have a shot at competing. 'course, they're still in the AL east, so it's not a good shot, but it could happen. that's the way you use a farm system. first priority is pitching, then having some depth (decent players you can call up to fill in). if you get some serious ML talent for your lineup, that's great. more likely the heart of your order comes via trade or free agency. in the case of a trade, it's still the strength of your farm system that allowed you to make that happen.
ramble, ramble, ramble. it's early. i got up for work and now i don't have to go. i'm working for you friday though. it's all set.
just a note: good farm systems are vital to continued success, even in this free agent era. name me a team that wins without a good farm system. i can name you some that lose because they don't.
back in the late nineties the o's tried to operate the way the sox and the yanks do. they wanted proven talent, and were willing to pay for it. problem is that, unlike the other two teams, they didn't have unlimeted budgets. when shit went wrong (albert belle=degenerative hip condition, will clark=old and shitty, roberto alamar=obnoxious snot who lost all skills, cal ripken=grandfather, starting pitcher=all washed up (rick helling!), bullpen=nonexistant, they were all on the DL) they couldn't fix it. they couldn't just sign more sluggers, as the money they already owed was substantial (belle alone cost them over fifty million dollars just for the time he didn't play). so, they cut bait. syd thrift (fuckin' crazy old man. he's fun.) came on and they sold everyone off. so started a long and very painful rebuilding process (going on eight years now). it's a process based on getting the farm system back in order. since the early nineties it was seriously one of the worst in the game. once upon a time they had one of the best in the game. it takes a long time to turn that around. bad luck with pitching injuries and losing out on top draft picks has hurt, but they're finally turning the corner. while you know that pitching is strong, there is still a deficientcy of position players. this kinda makes sense to me. i'd rather spend eight mil on a position player who's playing everyday than a starter who's one of five. it's a lot easier to find quality position players. i'd love to see the o's come up with a big bat out of the system (which they might have. there's this greek kid who's tearin' it up. we'll see.), but so long as they've got a stable rotation, they have a shot at competing. 'course, they're still in the AL east, so it's not a good shot, but it could happen. that's the way you use a farm system. first priority is pitching, then having some depth (decent players you can call up to fill in). if you get some serious ML talent for your lineup, that's great. more likely the heart of your order comes via trade or free agency. in the case of a trade, it's still the strength of your farm system that allowed you to make that happen.
ramble, ramble, ramble. it's early. i got up for work and now i don't have to go. i'm working for you friday though. it's all set.
just a note: good farm systems are vital to continued success, even in this free agent era. name me a team that wins without a good farm system. i can name you some that lose because they don't.
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Blancito21
- Perennial All-Star
- Posts: 204
- Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:57 pm
- Location: Berkeley
I don't want this to turn into a huge debate but just listen:
THE YANKEES HAVE ONE THE WORST FARM SYSTEM IN THE MAJORS!!! Seth, they got lucky with the guys you mentioned. They trade all their draft picks and good prospects for "mlb ready" stars. This is why they continue to sign old players slightly over their prime to fill slots and pray they produce like they have in the past. Until they stop this cyclical process their farm system will be hurrendous. That is what gets pillaged and raped all the time, though they have 1 or 2 good pitching stars waiting in the wings...position players...not so much.
How they do it and why it shouldn't be seen as a negative within this system has already been discussed ad nauseum, so Richard, please get off the soap box and say something positive about the A's instead of spending time ripping the Yankees apart for doing what they are supposed to do: SPEND THEIR REVENUE MONEY ON PLAYERS TO WIN!!!! There is so much more to to baseball's financial dillemma than the Yankees. So many teams spend absurd amounts of money and aren't even discussed, Mets, Dodgers, Rangers. So many owners, like Twins owner Carl Pohlad who is the richest man in baseball, pocket the dough and put out marginally good product that can hang around but ultimately will never win. Why not bash them? They don't win. Sox and Yanks win, so you trash them. Stop it. It's old, it's uninformed and it's, in a word, BULLSHIT!!! By the way, if the Yankees didn't put that All-Star team on the field, half the teams in the AL wouldn't come close to drawing as many fans as they do annually. They are the biggest draw in the game and cause an influx of money everytime they hit your town. Enjoy!
...and yes you struck a chord.
The Rays will be a force in 2007. They have so many young stars its ridiculous (Cantu, Crawford, Baldelli, Gomes, Gathright, Upton) and the best one, as in #1 prospect in all of baseball, hasn't even come up yet: Delmon Young, Dmitri's brother. If they trade Huff, which they will, for a great starter and just spend some money next off season for some arms they will conted by next year.
Cabrera is nasty and that entire pitching staff will improve on Mazzone alone. Lopez, Bedard, Cabrera, Chen and Benson is a pretty damn good staff by league standards. With Mazzone, they become above average. I do think Lopez is a roller coaster and will improve the least. Cabrera is an ace in the making, Bedard is healthy again and you saw what he did last year when of sound body. Chen is the next jamie Moyer, late to bloom, but dominant in older age due to wisdom and speed variations. Benson just needs to stay focused and he would be a plus starter. Their lineup is ok. Not strong enough for the AL Beast.
THE YANKEES HAVE ONE THE WORST FARM SYSTEM IN THE MAJORS!!! Seth, they got lucky with the guys you mentioned. They trade all their draft picks and good prospects for "mlb ready" stars. This is why they continue to sign old players slightly over their prime to fill slots and pray they produce like they have in the past. Until they stop this cyclical process their farm system will be hurrendous. That is what gets pillaged and raped all the time, though they have 1 or 2 good pitching stars waiting in the wings...position players...not so much.
How they do it and why it shouldn't be seen as a negative within this system has already been discussed ad nauseum, so Richard, please get off the soap box and say something positive about the A's instead of spending time ripping the Yankees apart for doing what they are supposed to do: SPEND THEIR REVENUE MONEY ON PLAYERS TO WIN!!!! There is so much more to to baseball's financial dillemma than the Yankees. So many teams spend absurd amounts of money and aren't even discussed, Mets, Dodgers, Rangers. So many owners, like Twins owner Carl Pohlad who is the richest man in baseball, pocket the dough and put out marginally good product that can hang around but ultimately will never win. Why not bash them? They don't win. Sox and Yanks win, so you trash them. Stop it. It's old, it's uninformed and it's, in a word, BULLSHIT!!! By the way, if the Yankees didn't put that All-Star team on the field, half the teams in the AL wouldn't come close to drawing as many fans as they do annually. They are the biggest draw in the game and cause an influx of money everytime they hit your town. Enjoy!
...and yes you struck a chord.
The Rays will be a force in 2007. They have so many young stars its ridiculous (Cantu, Crawford, Baldelli, Gomes, Gathright, Upton) and the best one, as in #1 prospect in all of baseball, hasn't even come up yet: Delmon Young, Dmitri's brother. If they trade Huff, which they will, for a great starter and just spend some money next off season for some arms they will conted by next year.
Cabrera is nasty and that entire pitching staff will improve on Mazzone alone. Lopez, Bedard, Cabrera, Chen and Benson is a pretty damn good staff by league standards. With Mazzone, they become above average. I do think Lopez is a roller coaster and will improve the least. Cabrera is an ace in the making, Bedard is healthy again and you saw what he did last year when of sound body. Chen is the next jamie Moyer, late to bloom, but dominant in older age due to wisdom and speed variations. Benson just needs to stay focused and he would be a plus starter. Their lineup is ok. Not strong enough for the AL Beast.
Mr. Mcgee don't make me angry...you wouldn't like me when I'm angry!!!
it's true that the yanks are the #1 draw across the country. sad, but true. i'm not actually familiar with their system, but they do seem to keep coming up with guys, year after year. i know they trade a lot away, but that's not really the point. they get value out of their system. maybe they have just been lucky, but it's pretty freakin' lucky. i mean, i barely started that list. there's a whole 'nother pile of guys they've traded for value, such as nick johnson and juan rivera, not to mention the guys who play great for a short period of time, i.e. shane spencer. that guy's september call up is what every minor leager dreams of. sure, he's not that great, but he was when they needed it. clearly the team is built on free agency. as i say, i'm not familiar with their actual farm system, only what it has produced. judging from that, they look to be in pretty good shape. maybe there aint shit left, but as long as there's a steady stream of players to trade, it's got to be considered an effective system.
oh, and i hate the yankees for precisely the reasons you give. they are, beyond the shadow of a doubt, the best team. they have the greatest resources and take full advantage of the fact. i can't blame them for this, but i can hate them. it's just so much fun to see the giant fall. 'sides, i am from baltimore. hating the yankees is in my birthright. i guess i should hate the sox too, but i can't. i've spent a lot of time in boston, and for as long as i've been really following baseball the o's have sucked. someone's got to beat the yanks, and that someone's gotta be boston.
and, shmoe, the o's don't need your bashing. they do enough of that on their own. anyway, talk to me when the farm system in oakland wins them a world series, or even gets 'em outta the first round.
oh, and i hate the yankees for precisely the reasons you give. they are, beyond the shadow of a doubt, the best team. they have the greatest resources and take full advantage of the fact. i can't blame them for this, but i can hate them. it's just so much fun to see the giant fall. 'sides, i am from baltimore. hating the yankees is in my birthright. i guess i should hate the sox too, but i can't. i've spent a lot of time in boston, and for as long as i've been really following baseball the o's have sucked. someone's got to beat the yanks, and that someone's gotta be boston.
and, shmoe, the o's don't need your bashing. they do enough of that on their own. anyway, talk to me when the farm system in oakland wins them a world series, or even gets 'em outta the first round.
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Blancito21
- Perennial All-Star
- Posts: 204
- Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:57 pm
- Location: Berkeley
Nevermind. This from Ken Rosenthal:
Right-hander Philip Hughes and third baseman/first baseman Eric Duncan aren't the only Yankees prospects making positive impressions. "People are starting to believe what we were saying last year — we're strong, but strong 'low'," general manager Brian Cashman says, referring to the team's depth at the lower levels ...
I hate when shit like that happens. I have my foot planted firmly in my mouth.
Right-hander Philip Hughes and third baseman/first baseman Eric Duncan aren't the only Yankees prospects making positive impressions. "People are starting to believe what we were saying last year — we're strong, but strong 'low'," general manager Brian Cashman says, referring to the team's depth at the lower levels ...
I hate when shit like that happens. I have my foot planted firmly in my mouth.
Mr. Mcgee don't make me angry...you wouldn't like me when I'm angry!!!
the yanks do give the impression of being without a farm system, as you don't see many guys on the team that came up since the jeter, williams, rivera era. they just use their talent differently. those mere mortal teams actually have to produce players that will be on their major league club. the yanks don't have to worry about that. it's hard to judge systems anyway. unnless you follow it really closely, or are actually around, it's easy to misjudge a system as a whole. some team might have a few strong prospects, but the rest of the system sucks. other teams don't have the superstar in the making, but they have a lot of potential major league players. the o's, for instance, don't have a lot of strong position player prospects, but there are a whole bunch of guys who could be on a major league team as fourth outfielders, utility players, fill-ins and whatnot. those guys matter when you're trying to win as many out of 162 as possible. it's a different sort of strength. i believe they call that depth. what pisses me off is that even with this depth, they can't come up with a backup catcher better than geronimo gil. that's some bullshit. i may be the only fan in the country who longs for the day that brook fordyce was still there. there's a name, anyone know him? he's almost an ideal backup catcher, except he doesn't throw real well. sigh. how hard is it to find a backup catcher? seriously.
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Southpaw Slim
- Kenesaw Mountain Landis
- Posts: 610
- Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:36 pm
- Location: Oakland, CA
- Contact:
You know, the same could be said about the Athletics. They have Johnson, Swisher, Blanton and Street in the lineup this year. Chavez is home-grown. Zito, too. Haren's coming off of his rookie season. It's a young team, which is why it's great we picked up both a veteran hitter and a veteran pitcher. The team is going to improve immensly this year. AND IT'S LESS THAN A MONTH AWAY!!!!!Joe shmoe wrote:TAM- their mlb club is their farm system and look at how good they are
I intended to write something to remind everybody of my superior prowess.