Really Close to Being Pissed Off For Good.

[retep]

Not like this matters to anyone, but I’m close to being pissed off to the point where I may just stop coming to our games.

Until money, true personal achievement, or other significant factor is on the line, there is no reason that our games should be as heated as they get. People say, “Well, its not fun unless we’re competitive.” That’s true, but up until several months ago, we were having plenty of fun, and played hard. Barking and complaining and challenging every aspect of our games isn’t part of true competition: it comes off as a selfish attempt to get things to go your way.

Back to the basics. I get one day off a week. I was finding it fun to take that one day to wake up early, travel to Oakland, and play ball for a few hours. It was a joy, and a pleasure. It was all the fun of baseball that I hadn’t enjoyed since early high school, but minus the fact that someone could berate your for your abilities, and it was a chance to grow.

Now, I take full responsibility for times when I have yelled at players, changed people’s positions out of frustrations, and so on. I’ll also say that there have been times that I have gotten caught up in play calls which I should have stayed out off. I have tried to take this all as feedback, and do try and work on it.

Remember when we called players by consensus for an entire game? But now there is this recent trend of play-goes-to-yells-loudest. It is absurd. Today, this wasn’t much of an issue, because of the new idea of having the pitcher be the umpire. Bravo!

In my work, I have taken of the Police Department and the School District and won. But I don’t come to play baseball to show off my debating skills. Plus, the physical exhaustion takes an effect on my temper. So what happens if I don’t feel like screaming my case out loud?

Two weeks ago, I was amazed that two batters into the game, an individual was already shouting at his teammates. This may be news, but this bull shit is tiring when it goes un check game after game, week after week.

Today, the way in which the player who recorded the final out was treated was absolutely, positively, inexcusable. I would say that shouting down ANY player of ours to be uncalled for, but to act so aggressively towards a younger player to ridiculous.

I head a couple people frame that as “coaching.” That’s absolute bullshit. Can anyone remember a coach or manager, at any level of baseball, who ran out ON TO THE FIELD and yells at full force at the player who made the mistake? This isn’t football, people. This is baseball.

Want to know how a good coach or manager acts? Take this example. Frank Robinson, the first black manager in both the NL and AL, and currently manager for the D.C. Nationals, is considered to be a tough manager. Very tough. Want to know how he handles mistakes by his players? After a mistake, he pulls the player aside and calmly tells the player what he could have done better. It is only after a second offense that he vocally reprimands the player… and this is done either privately, or within the dugout.

Now, like I said, this may not mean shit, but I may stop coming to games. Its not worth the energy to come all the way to Oakland to engage in an event where the main attraction is bitching.

[TheLegend]

A. If you (refering to anyone who is reading this) don't care whether or not you win, I would prefer if you didn't come. Having people on my team who aren't going to play to the full extent of their abilities is personally demoralizing and makes the game less fun for me.

B. If you are unable to play to a reasonable level of competance, (which I would consider to be the state of most people under the age of 16) or at least show the desire to improve yourself to reasonable level of competance, I would prefer if you didn't come. When you're playing a competative game, having bad players on your team is VERY VERY frustrating, that's all there is to it. When a player makes a bonehead move in a competative game, it hurts all the people on that team who are playing to win.


I think I've stated before that there is no such thing as a good casual player, because in order to improve yourself, you have to be willing to push yourself harder than a "casual player" (almost by definition) is willing to push themselves. It's no secret that the skill level of the players in our game has improved, both by the improvement of existing players and the addition of more skilled players.

Arguments, high tempers and angry advice are all a part of better players and more competative games, and as far as I can tell, it's not a trend of our games that is going to be reversed anytime soon.

Not to say that I don't think that they should be kept to a minimum... but I'm not really excited to write about that... so I'll end my post now.

[Baseball=Life]

Hey Guys.

Well I think Ken & Peter are both guilty of going a little overboard. I think Ken needs to tone it down a little and Peter needs to lighten up. I tried to make this point previously about giving advice in a manner that doesn't sound angry or frustrated---ya know, trying to take into account how the person who just fucked up might be feeling.

We play a blend of games that are for fun, but also are competitive. It is a tricky balance, because competitiveness brings out emotions and can get pretty exciting. This can sometimes lead to disappointment which, when expressed, makes it less fun for some. Try to think back when the only guy we've banned so far, Josh, would completely freak out on people with comments like "Why the fuck did you do that? Are you fucking stupid?"

I'd like to state the obvious that no single player is bigger than this league, and while it would suck if any person decided to not come anymore, the league would certainly go on.

Oh, and while Peter is right that scorekeeping decisions are solely those of the scorekeeper, I personally didn't have much of a problem with people debating a scoring decision---to me that's part of the fun of the game. The given here, though, is that no matter how you feel, you must accept the scorekeeper's decision. But limit your debate with each other to when the ball is dead. For instance, I didn't like Nick debating a scoring decision with Ken from the dugout while Ken was trying to play catcher.

I think what we should focus on from the last game was, like Peter said, how the new idea of having the Pitcher be the umpire worked out very well. [Although, on the close play at the plate with Bonner, I could tell the Pitcher (Paul) wasn't really in position so, being nearby as the on-deck hitter, I got into position to make what I knew would be a fairly close call. So, note to all pitcher-umpires, don't forget to get in really good position to make a close call on the basepaths.]

I also think we should focus on how amazing the game was! 7 Webgems! 9 Home Runs! Someone nailed at home plate! Single game records tied & broken! Close, competitive game all the way through! It was awesome, let's face it! A grand slam with 2 outs! Boxscore is done and waiting to be linked to the site, check back later today.

Now, as for the game-ending play. I think people are making a valid point about how we should handle having kids in the game. It's tricky. Their skill levels are usually not adequate, and they bring a new element into the already-tricky competitive/fun balance issue. What I'm really getting at is how can we allow some kids, with proven skills, to play, but not others? Advice on this would be appreciated. I'm not sure how to proceed.

BUT !!!!!!!!!!!!!

That game-ending play, when I tagged out Eddie for the 3rd out in the 9th, in between 3rd and home........ this happened NOT because it was a kid, but because the runner didn't have cleats. ANYONE of any age would've been out in that scenario without cleats. When I got the ball at SS, I knew the runner was coming into 3rd hard. I also knew he had no cleats. So, at the moment when he got to the bag and rounded it, I had a small window of opportunity (created due to lack of cleats) where I could fake a throw behind the runner (toward 3rd) before he could get traction and momentum back to the bag. I just froze him as he rounded 3rd normally. He wasn't trying to run home, he just couldn't stop his momentum. He was dead to rites at that point in the rundown. So this was a cleats, not a kids issue.

Interestingly, he WASN'T the tying run as we all thought he was---if he scored it would've made it 29-27 with 2 outs and the # 9 hitter coming up.

We all need to make a better effort toward tabulating the run totals correctly on the Innings Sheet (the sheet where we put down the runs for the inning). Both teams messed up... final score was 29-26, not 28-27 like we all thought.

So, yeah, check for the boxscore from yesterday (7/24) later tonight, and I will do my best to get the 7/3 game and the 7/10 doubleheader boxscores up by midnight tonight.

[AntMoOAK]

Wow ! DPB has really showed its' collective ass the last few weeks. A few things from my view on top of the soap box over here.

First and formost... I disagree with you Ken on your assertion.

unable to play to a reasonable level of competance, (which I would consider to be the state of most people under the age of 16

.
Many kids can play the game at a decent level and I might add have more baseball perspicacity than more than a few of the adults who play with DPB; perhaps even including myself (at THIS stage of my life). I remember earning the right to play with the MEN on the hoop court thus graduating from the kiddie court. I remember when the adults would be short a player on their softball team and me being all of 12-13 was allowed to fill in. Did I screw up on seemingly simple stuff (miss an easy game winning layup, drop an easy fly ball) ? Of course. It's part of growing into the game. Remember. Eddie did get on base and Nick Cox plays decently. If it's all the same, I welcome kids (10+). This is baseball not football. The only safety issue is if we were playing with live pitching where I would agree with no kids. I would rather see kids staying out the streets of West Oakland playing with us.

That being said- Will-- You were out of pocket (and if he doesn't read this, I'll tell him next game. None of us need be scurred and hide behind cyberspace. You got a problem with someone, be a man and tell him). Eddie made a bonehead error... he didn't watch his coach. If he didn't have on cleats, then he should have compensated. He perhaps killed his teams' chance. Believe me. His heart dropped and he knows he screwed up. Pull the player aside next time (get in his face if need be) and let him know- STERNLY, but not by berating him. I'm all for consequences as a result of actions (not none of that I'm OK, your OK, we 're all winners BS). Like my old has always taught me... It's not what you do... but how you do it.

Peter... we love ya'... Keep comin'. I agree with you that there is entirely too much excessive bitchin' and moanin' for us to be grown men and it does take away from the game (by drawing it out) Unfortunantly, that's the way of the world today. There is bitchin' everywhere and at all levels of competition. We should however learn when to let it go. Even on ghetto ass hoop courts there comes a point where a disputed call is let go and it is understood (mostly) that the next (disputed) call goes the other way. I think we all owe it the the experience of DPB to re-read or in some cases read the rules so that we understand our nuances of the game. In particular, we always dispute the one base rule on an overthrown ball to first. Of course in the Major Leagues, as long as the ball does not go out of play, ie; the dugout, the runner can run as dumb and long as he feels like at his peril because the ball is live. If it goes out of play then one base is awarded. WE however, need to remember the rules that have been established to fit our experience. Whatever those may be (and that may be the problem).

I enjoy these games and the increasing competitiveness that has evovled and hope it grows.

On a lighter note... 9 freakin' home runs ??? Most with wood bats (Thanks Will and Ken for breaking in my bat with ya'lls monster hits ). This should put a lid on the wood vs. aluminum debates from a power standpoint at least. I still think we've outgrown DeFremery but that's another argument for another day.

Finally go A's... as I write this we are kicking Cle'land's behind.

[retep]

I will totally own-up to the fact that I myself have a terrible temper. And, again, I apologize for the times that I have flipped out.

I wanted to add that I have some guilt associated with all of this. It seemed that over the fall and winter (since I had joined) that this was a rather happy-go-lucky group. Not to say people didn’t strive to win… in fact, I would say that I was personally a much more aggressive player in those times.

But then I had the idea of the website. Well, wasn’t my idea: credit Nick and Scott. But I kicked it off. I was hoping it would be fun to track stats… make us feel like we could track our progress, and have some good-natured competition and would push us to do better. I thought we would use the forum to talk about baseball, and have players of the game (which we’ve stopped doing). All these things have been changing.

Now the forum is a debating floor. Sure, much of the talk has been about various ways to improve our games, but much of it is pure debate. Maybe all the attention on personal stats, and debating has taken attention away form these other parts of our game.

I want to look forward to games. Can we all try and make an effort to have a little more fun?

I’ll start by stop being such a drama queen!



P.S. I want to add that, though we oppose 50% of each other each week, I really see us as one big team. And maybe I get upset because I think teammates should always pull for each other, and support one another. But maybe I’m just a putz!

[Baseball=Life]

It seemed that over the fall and winter (since I had joined) that this was a rather happy-go-lucky group.

Again, don't forget Josh!!!!!!!!!!!!! I guess you probably never played with him. Well he was the most aggro person that's ever been out there. The best was when he tripped over home plate at DeFremery, faceplanted into the fence behind home, and broke his glasses. Everyone on the field had to restrain massive laughter at that moment. It an instance when karma seemed to actually play out. But, yeah, this is animal crackers and milk compared to that guy. He actually had a growth on his shoulder (looked like a 2nd head) that sprouted out due to his constantly angry worldview, no joke. Ask Nick about him.

I thought we would use the forum to talk about baseball, and have players of the game (which we’ve stopped doing).

Yeah, this has been inconsistent. We still use it to talk about baseball (We need a strategy index post!) We should make more of an effort to post about players-of-the-game. When I was voting on MVP, I found myself wanting to compare how often Ken was player-of-the-game versus how often Will was. So, yeah, post about player-of-the-game, damnit!

P.S. I want to add that, though we oppose 50% of each other each week, I really see us as one big team. And maybe I get upset because I think teammates should always pull for each other, and support one another.

I agree with all the hippy sentiments you just stated. [disgusted with myself]

So Peter, you gotta tell us the story about taking on the schools and cops and winnin'! It sounds great. I beat the cops once when they busted a punk show I was putting on and took the money at the door. I spent the night in jail but got the charges against me dropped and got the proceeds from the door back (over $2000), although it took me about 2 years to do so. F'ing cops.

[retep]

Again, don't forget Josh!!!!!!!!!!!!! I guess you probably never played with him.

I remeber him. It was my bat he took to the fence after he did somethign like strike out.

So Peter, you gotta tell us the story about taking on the schools and cops and winnin'! It sounds great.

I'll post in the off-topic section.

[Dave L]

OK, I realize I'm the least qualified for making this statement since some of these kids are more skilled in many ways than I am but, I agree with Will on this one (certainly NOT on the WAY he stated his case) but as he said, it is impossible to play a serious game with young kids. Sure, they can hit our easy pitches but it is IMPOSSIBLE for them to field adequately. They simply do not have the size and strength to stop or catch balls hit by adults. And there is a definate safetly issue. They're gonna get hurt. It's only a matter of time. They're gonna get hit by the ball or run over on the base paths. And unlike an adult who'll shake it off, they're gonna be knocked unconscious or break a bone or something.

I love the little guys, believe me. I think it's great that the local kids hang out and not on the streets. But placing them in the line of fire of speeding hardballs is not necessarily a safe alternative.

[gohlkus]

This is somewhat off topic, but my main reason for not coming as consistently as I otherwise would is that:

Hours 1-4 of playing baseball are great!
Hour 5 of playing baseball is okay.
Hours 6-8 of playing baseball feel like a job I'm not getting paid for.

If I didn't feel the social pressure of not making the teams uneven (and had an easy way to get to and from Curt Flood when I wanted), I'd just come for 4-5 hours and then leave.

I mentioned this the last game I was at, and I sensed that a few people felt similarly.

How about shortening the games to 7 innings?

Thoughts?

[gohlkus]

I think Nick Cox is qualified to play with us. I don't know about any other kids.

[mp1045]

set a minimum age and give players on the borderline of age/size an evaluation to see if they can handle the game. As adults, we should be mindful that there is probably a legal risk to allowing minors to play with us. Where's that legal eagle infielder Dorian when we need him?

I too think that Nick C. should play.

mp

[Baseball=Life]

This discussion is reminding me of an idea I (and others) had a while ago......

We should all fill out disclaimers stating that we will not hold Scott Leathers or the City of Oakland liable for any injuries that occur while playing baseball.

After saying "yes" to this, we should then list our insurance company, as well as our policy number.

By allowing me to collect these disclaimers, we can easily avoid problems in the future with the City and with the Dept. of Parks & Rec.

Also, it will enable us to have an easy mechanism by which we can disallow players, ie if they haven't already given us this disclaimer. Players would have a 1-game "get out of jail free" card (not literally) where they could play without the disclaimer, but could not play again unless they brought one already filled out and ready to turn in.

Doing all of this would put me in a better position legally as well.

[AntMoOAK]

These days you have to cover your ass... draft one and I'll sign it

[tallguy]

Me too. Although I'm not too sure what kind of insurance you're referring to when you said "your insurance company".
It should probably say that we will not hold anyone participating in the game as liable, not just Scott.

[retep]

It should probably say that we will not hold anyone participating in the game as liable, not just Scott.

Agree!

By the way, way to highjack my self-indulgent post!