Stats are actually evil

tallguy · Post by **tallguy** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:35 am

Hey, just a thought, but maybe we should stop keeping the stats. Now wait, wait, before you all call me a dumbass whoreson limey, just try and think about it for a second. They are cool, yes, but they do seem to be the root cause of a lot of bad sentiment.

Post by **retep** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:09 am

Read my thoughts is "Losign sight..." I recently posted a similar thought.

tallguy · Post by **tallguy** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:45 am

Yeah, your post is what got me thinking about it. I really think we would better off if we just kept accurate boxscores and that's all.

Blancito21 · Post by **Blancito21** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:39 am

I must say one of the most exciting aspects of this league for me has been the recording and organization of stats. I've never played in a league that did it so thoroughly and for so many categories. I mean I've emailed ex-teammates and friends the link so they can be aware of my progress. Admittedly I have been one of the people who let the changes in his rankings affect his demeanor and attitude on a weekly basis but I have to work on that. I've never played in a league like this where it was strictly fun and had such a laidback atmosphere. Heck, I've never played a pick-up game that way. But you have to understand that my environment helped shape my attitude and competitive fire and while I was one of the lesser shit talkers in leagues back home, it translates to being a stat-obsessed, testosterone-filled, competitive prick with you guys and I've tried my best to keep that under wraps. For me and teams I have been on, it was always about winning, well stomping your opponent to oblivion, while attempting to always be the best player on the field, which caused pleasure and fun. This is not about that and I have to realize that I'm becoming an old man rec-league guy who should just make the best of having the opportunity to playing the one thing he's most passionate about in life without the glory that used to come with it while also making some nice acquaintances, maybe friends, in the process.

So in short...please don't get rid of stats.

Post by **Baseball=Life** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:37 pm

Don't worry, we're not going to get rid of stats. I know they have potential unintended consequences, but the benefits of having them offset those downsides. They will remain.

Southpaw Slim · Post by **Southpaw Slim** » Mon May 01, 2006 4:51 pm

Blancito21 wrote:...you have to understand that my environment helped shape my attitude and competitive fire and while I was one of the lesser shit talkers in leagues back home, it translates to being a stat-obsessed, testosterone-filled, competitive prick with you guys and I've tried my best to keep that under wraps.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! You're a prick?! Hahaha. I guess that's a compliment to the temper-control that seems to protect the league.

Post by **Baseball=Life** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:18 pm

And by the way, Paul, I meant to say that you're a dumbass whoreson limey for having suggested this.

tallguy · Post by **tallguy** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:01 pm

Hey, how nice was it to play that second game without stats last week? Come on, wasn't it great to be able to forget about everything but THE SCORE, the only thing that really matters?

Southpaw Slim · Post by **Southpaw Slim** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:39 pm

Paul,

I agree that the game was fun when there wasn't any emphasis on personal performance. However, because we didn't keep score, I'm not sure the final score was accurate. But, whatever.

It was very nice.

Post by **Baseball=Life** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:11 pm

Yeah, it was fun, but the lower intensity level was also less fun.

Edit: I can certainly see how it would be much more fun for you, since you went 1/6 in Game 1.

Post by **retep** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:33 pm

Well, the intensity is directed in thw wrong way at times, due to stats.

tallguy · Post by **tallguy** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:08 pm

Personally my lower intensity can be attributed to extreme tiredness, what with being completely unfit and all. If that had been the first game, I'd have been 100%, and so would we all.

Southpaw Slim · Post by **Southpaw Slim** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:36 pm

And here I thought it was because you were cycling off of the 'roids.

tallguy · Post by **tallguy** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:25 am

So stats are evil because if we only cared about the score, then playing at Defremery would not be so devisive and acrimonious. Sure, some people would still complain about cheap HR's robbing the defense of a chance to do their job, and that is a valid point, but at least it would eliminate the whole stat-padding-sucks, stats-are-field-dependent argument. And both teams could equally hit cheap HRs.

Stats are evil because now, when someone gets an ROE, they are disappointed, or worse, angry at themselves for not hitting a gap or whatever. They should be happy to be on base, they would have been out if not for that error! We are no longer thinking only of our team, we have become at least partially driven by our desire to have a good day at the plate. Good days are all very well, but if your team loses, what does it matter?

Some people have argued that without stats we play half-assed. I don't think that's the case. When people are half-baked, they play half-assed, sure, but I personally don't recall the games (at Defremery, mind) being lacking in competition when I first started playing and we weren't keeping stats, just a boxscore. Overall, I think the pros far, far outweigh the cons.

Post by **Baseball=Life** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:56 am

Well this is pretty much a dead issue. I only brought up the thread again as a joke because I had dropped the ball in calling you a whore limey. Anyway, you are totally overestimating what any "stat-focus" has on people when they are batting. Think of it, Paul, there is little to no context in which a batter would change their approach to an at-bat in the name of the team. Rarely is it appropriate for a batter to sacrifice their at-bat for the team. Now, if we had an epidemic of people all batting opposite-handed, that might be an issue, but we don't. In fact, I can think of only a couple times when the sac bunt or the groundout to the right side was needed to move over a runner for the team. Even when a sac fly is needed, this still involves the same driving the ball that an individually-focused batter would use. At all other times, a batter trying to enhance their personal stats is directly benefiting their team. These two sets of interest that you seem to think are competing, in fact almost completely overlap.

Another huge aspect of tracking stats that cannot be overlooked is the tools they provide in creating balanced teams. Because of stats, we can know how someone is doing, even lately, and thus create a more balanced set of teams. As you know, avoiding blowouts is important in terms of keeping stable turnout. Stat tracking (for instance the game logs) are a crucial tool for imforming the issue of balance. And our turnout fluctuates throughout the year (new faces, old faces from the past, etc.), making tracking devices all the more important.

I don't dispute that someone is disappointed when they get an ROE. However, many would be disappointed for not hitting effectively, regardless of whether or not the fielder fucks up the play and gives the batter the base. It wouldn't be satisfying to me to reach base in every at-bat due to the defense fucking up, again regardless of whether ROEs are being tracked or not.

If you are concerned about this issue, my recommendation is to handle your own personal behavior differently. "You" being anyone by the way. For instance, recognize that throwing a tantrum because you struck out, while not directed at anyone in particular, does in fact have a detrimental effect on the atmosphere and thus everyone. I have somewhat mixed feelings, though, because I find it kind of amusing to see someone kick over the cooler. I know that when I'm stewing near the dugout after failing on some play I'm probably not enriching the experience of those around me. So thanks for helping me come to this realization, I'll try to look at my own behavior and how it might effect others.

Because, that's all we can really do... stats aren't going anywhere.