Oakland Park Baseball

Say a ball is hit to the outfield and the outfielder has to run to make a play. Say a slow outfielder would not have been able to make the play (so the ball bounces and eventually thrown in). However, a fast outfielder can reach the ball and tries to make a play. If the ball bounces off of the fast outfielders glove as he tries to make the catch and he drops it, is it an error? (Assume the fast outfielder has to reach out for the ball, but didn’t have to dive or jump). I’m curious about how it should be scored AND how it is scored in real life (for the fielder).

- Dorian

PS: Help me a Ken resolve the argument and know you can't know who supports what side. We are actually only arguing about the second half of the question (how it is typically scored in real life).

I am 99% positive that unless the ball goes off the fielders glove it is a hit. Even if it hits the glove it is the scorers discretion. Was he laid out in a dive, or dropped a easy basket catch? The official scorer makes the decision accordingly.

Pat K

I think what Pat said is correct.


One way to look at it is if the catch is gem-worthy, if that catch isn't made and goes off the glove, well of course it's not an error, since it would've been a catch that was above and beyond had it been made.

Like Byrnes diving for that ball that got past him and cost the A's the game yesterday against the Mariners........ definitely not an error.


A related question comes down to crediting batters with RBIs.

Situation: bases loaded, 1 out. Batter hits flyball to gap in Left Center.

LF comes over and sets up to make the catch. When the ball gets to him he's not running, he's just moving laterally from left field a bit. He positions himself to make the throw to get the runners tagging up.

But instead, the ball glances off his glove, and all three baserunners score. The batter ends up at third.

How many RBIs does the batter deserve?

Note: if there were 2 outs at the time, the batter deserves zero RBIs, because his fly ball would've been the third out.

Note: With this scenario (less than 2 outs), the batter deserves 1 RBI for the runner at third, who would've tagged up and probably scored even if the catch HAD been made.

Note: This play is based on a real game scenario. Pat or Peter were in CF at Curt Flood, runners were Daniel, Ken, and Unknown. Batter was William. This was in his 8 RBI game. This is why there was a delay in posting Williams single game RBI record.

It wasn't the 8 RBI game, or its happened twice.

This occured last week, but i was not involed with the play.

But what if the fielder is running laterally and DOESN'T dive or set up for an easy catch? What if he's just running over and can reach the ball with a stretch? I think that's the question being asked here.

To answer some of these questions see the following excerpts from the official MLB rules: (http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/offic ... rer_10.jsp)

RUNS BATTED IN
10.04
(a) Credit the batter with a run batted in for every run which reaches home base because of the batter's safe hit, sacrifice bunt, sacrifice fly, infield out or fielder's choice; or which is forced over the plate by reason of the batter becoming a runner with the bases full (on a base on balls, or an award of first base for being touched by a pitched ball, or for interference or obstruction). (1) Credit a run batted in for the run scored by the batter who hits a home run. Credit a run batted in for each runner who is on base when the home run is hit and who scores ahead of the batter who hits the home run. (2) Credit a run batted in for the run scored when, before two are out, an error is made on a play on which a runner from third base ordinarily would score. (b) Do not credit a run batted in when the batter grounds into a force double play or a reverse force double play. (c) Do not credit a run batted in when a fielder is charged with an error because he muffs a throw at first base which would have completed a force double play. (d) Scorer's judgment must determine whether a run batted in shall be credited for a run which scores when a fielder holds the ball, or throws to a wrong base. Ordinarily, if the runner keeps going, credit a run batted in; if the runner stops and takes off again when he notices the misplay, credit the run as scored on a fielder's choice.

ERRORS
10.13
An error shall be charged for each misplay (fumble, muff or wild throw) which prolongs the time at bat of a batter or which prolongs the life of a runner, or which permits a runner to advance one or more bases. NOTE (1) Slow handling of the ball which does not involve mechanical misplay shall not be construed as an error. NOTE (2) It is not necessary that the fielder touch the ball to be charged with an error. If a ground ball goes through a fielder's legs or a pop fly falls untouched and in the scorer's judgment the fielder could have handled the ball with ordinary effort, an error shall be charged.
... lots more on errors. See the link above...

PS: Shall we record errors and plays and tally fielding percentages?

Hey Dave,

Thanks for digging up that info about crediting RBIs and attributing Errors.


It looks like my initial interpretation of crediting RBIs was too generous. Only the runner on 3rd should be counted as an RBI in a less than 2 out, bases loaded situation where the batter hits a fly ball to the gap which the outfielder, not sprinting but only jogging laterally, let's bounce off his glove as he prepares to set up for the throw to get runners tagging up. Since that runner on third would have most likely scored had he caught it, it's an RBI. But the runner on 2nd would not have scored had it been caught, so no RBI, even if that guy comes around to score. And, obviously the runner on 1st scoring isn't a RBI either.


As for tracking errors. I like this idea however we need to get our current scoring perfected before we go to this new level of detail. Currently, we only have a handful of people who are comfortable doing the scoring. I think this idea is really good though, and will be doable soon, especially since we're already determining when someone reaches-on-error, ie we're already noting one aspect of errors, from the offensive perspective. Give it some more time and we can track defensive errors. I would love to see a list of fielding percentage, that would be awesome.

As Paul says, just my $.02