Wood Bats

[Tayster]

I like wood, but I know I'd still be using my metal bat if it hadn't dissapeared

I don't agree with forcing people to use one type of a bat or another.

[retep]

J 1 play a game where a team gives up a run without anyone on their team touching the ball is too much.

OK, i know I said I'd stay outta it, but, wouldn't this quote suggest that HRs with any bat are not ok? That's the point of a HR! You get to bypass the fielders! That's the beauty!

[TheLegend]

J 1 play a game where a team gives up a run without anyone on their team touching the ball is too much.

OK, i know I said I'd stay outta it, but, wouldn't this quote suggest that HRs with any bat are not ok? That's the point of a HR! You get to bypass the fielders! That's the beauty!

My point is that a HR that leaves the park, hit with any bat, off of a pitcher who is not on the opposing team, negates the defensive team entirely. This is part of the reason I don't like playing at Defremery at all and is the reason that I feel that having at least the group's power hitters use wood would be better for the game.

[TheLegend]

Some of us, with Ken merely being the most ardent and outspoken of this group, get the most out of a game when it is intensely competitive, and both sides are giving 100% on every play. A game with fewer home runs and more baserunning is more to their liking, usually. A home run hit with a wood bat is an exception - they are, somehow, special. This is the equipment the MLB uses, this is how the game is meant to be played.

Well... I pretty much said what I was going to say in my reply to peter's post... but anyhoo

It's not that HRs hit with wood bats are special... in my opinion, homeruns that are hit off your own team and leave the park are bad for the game. I suggest wood bats only because they will decrease such occurances.

[AntMoOAK]

Just to throw my two cents in... First of all DeFremery is too small for us grown folks to be playing baseball on... I know there is nostalgia and everything, but after we play a came at Flood and come back "home" I feel like a little kid... You know how grown men (and yes, I was guilty at 19-21 also) look STUPID playing on 8 foot basketball courts so they can dunk like they're superstars ? We kinda look like that at DeFremery. I LOVE the setting and vibe at DeFremery... but it's time to evolve... Flood and Raimondi (or any other big field like Franklin or Laney if we could sneak in) would be better suited for us. Raimondi is normally not in use when we play on Sundays... or if it is, it is usually right around the time we finish a first game.

All that gibberish being said... aluminum bats are not safe at DeFremery. The infield is too close to home and it is inevitable that someone will get hurt from a line drive... in fact if I recall, a few folks since last summer have been clocked at pitcher by well stroked line drives. The only times I've ever homered was using one of Carlos's "super" bats. The first time I homered was the las time that bat was available back in the fall and when I used the same aluminum bat a few weeks ago. So yes they do make a difference. However, in one of my at bats during a 3 homer game, I switched to one of Nick's wooden bats and hit a ball farther down left (albeit foul) than with any aluminum bat. So I'm not opposed using only wooden bats at DeFremery... if this is implemented, there should be a bat fund for an assortment of bats... There should be a community fund any way to cover all the shit Scott and Nick buy.

[Southpaw Slim]

Just want to point out that it's not just the number of homeruns that bothers me, it's the fact that it doesn't include the fielding team at all. 1 play a game where a team gives up a run without anyone on their team touching the ball is too much.

Ken, I've agreed with your points about safety. However, I think this should be between you and the pitcher, not the home run hitter. I don't hear you complaining about when the batter strikes out and doesn't give the defense a chance to interact with the play.

And what I'd said to Peter was that his hit would have been a home run instead of a foul ball if he was using a wooden bat. It definitely had the distance either way.

[retep]

I think the safety issue is a big deal too. I do agree that metal bats may pose a larger risk than wood, but either way, there is a risk. I would suggest we do the following:

-Defensive Pitcher must play behind the imaginary like between first base and third base.

-We don't allow bunts, which would limit the need for corner infielders to play in, which is a hazard if the batter chooses to not bunt the ball.

I like bunts too, but I think it’s a small part of our game, and we could just not do them at DeFremery.

Thoughts?

[tallguy]

I think bunts should be allowed at Defremery, but if you show a bunt, you cannot pull out and swing. Wait, isn't that already the rule?
While we're talking about the defensive pitcher, I want to say that this guy should stay close to the actual pitcher, otherwise you get a possible advantage. If the guy has good reflexes he could snag or at least touch and thus slow down a ground ball that would normally be out of the reach of the pitcher. You have to stay close.
A metal bat, if anything, makes the pitcher safer. The extra bat speed makes most people pull the ball more often, away from the pitcher and toward one of the foul lines. This effect is much greater than the slight reduction in reaction time the pitcher may have to get out of the way of the ball or catch it, as a result of extra ball velocity from the metal bat. When you weigh the reduction in transit-to-the-pitcher time against normal reaction time, the former is not significant.
What I'm saying is, if your reactions are good enough to get out the way of, or to catch, a comebacker off wood bats, they will be up to the task for metals bats too.

[Southpaw Slim]

While we're talking about the defensive pitcher, I want to say that this guy should stay close to the actual pitcher, otherwise you get a possible advantage. If the guy has good reflexes he could snag or at least touch and thus slow down a ground ball that would normally be out of the reach of the pitcher. You have to stay close.

I fully agree with your opinion, but for reasons other than those stated above. The defensive pitcher needs to stay close to the actual pitcher because he is --in essence-- the pitcher's glove. In fact, I noticed Ken and others pitching without a glove on to keep from the instinct to interact with the play. It is not only the duty of the defensive pitcher to field grounders and liners up the middle, as well as covering first or third when appropriate, but to also defend the pitcher if at all necessary (which it has never been so far. All pitchers injured by comebackers were fielding for themselves.) The pitcher position is not the super-shortstop position. It is defensive assistance for the actual pitcher (who could not be in both places in the real world, so STICK CLOSELY D-pitchers.)

A metal bat, if anything, makes the pitcher safer. The extra bat speed makes most people pull the ball more often, away from the pitcher and toward one of the foul lines. This effect is much greater than the slight reduction in reaction time the pitcher may have to get out of the way of the ball or catch it, as a result of extra ball velocity from the metal bat.

In no way whatsoever do I agree with this statement. The people who have the ability to turn a baseball into a laserbeam do not need the assistance from metal bats. Those who have the ability to crush also tend to have the ability to place their hits well. If someone chooses to hit up the middle with a metal bat and takes the pitcher down, they do not want to have the remorse associated. I know from experience that it sucks to injure someone. I specifically remember thinking, "Wow. If I was using metal, that could've knocked in some teeth or broken a nose." I'd rather think that than, "Oh, shit. If I had used wood, I might not have caused such a bad injury." I know this is an extreme postulation, but I still think wooden bats should be encouraged at DeFremery and will continue to do so.

I also think this topic is getting out of hand. Yes, metal is dangerous in close quarters. Yes, I personally believe it's not as fun and have considered it a form of cheating before. But I'm not going to turn into a bat Nazi about it. I understand there are people who have their own preference, as do I, and even I have used metal before to get a homer at D-Frem. I have since changed my stance on the issue after feeling like I cheated to get the blast, but that's my opinion. I'm not going to force someone to use a wooden bat, but I will continue to encourage everyone to use them.

Peter, don't worry about breaking a wooden bat. They're replaceable, and a lot cheaper than metal bats. Mine was $20. You can find some on eBay for almost nothing. I understand the issue of weight, though. Look for a light bat, and tape the shit out of the handle so it won't snap on you. If you worry about it breaking, chances are it will. The bat I bought while worrying about breakage snapped the first game it was in use. The two I've purchased because they were cheap have lasted over a year and I'd like to think it's because I don't care if they break, so they haven't.

An appendage to all this would be that there are a few of us who feel the need to use metal to have fun. I know that competition is what others need to feel fun, but they shouldn't let their own desire for what they feel is the "right" way get in the way of other people's enjoyment. The reason we play baseball is not to come home with trophies. We play because we all love the game, and because we want to have fun. If you have an opinion on how the game should be played, please, share it. Just don't go around telling other people they're wrong because they don't agree with you or don't feel that they can play on the same level as those who don't "need" metal bats.

Also, I think it's rediculous that Carlos uses that DeMarini bat. I mean, Jesus H. Fucking Christ.

[tallguy]

The only reason our pitchers are in any danger at Defremery is because we pitch from closer there than at Flood. This reduction in distance is far more significant in reducing the reaction time than an increase in batted ball velocity from using a metal bat. This you surely have to accept whether or not you agree with my previous statement against pulling the ball with metal.

Begin boring analysis:
It's simple math. A pitch distance of, say, 50 feet instead of 60, is a reduction of roughly 17%, whereas metal bats have, in various studies, been shown to increase batted ball velocity by a maximum of around 8 mph, on a typical ball velocity (in the studies) of 90 mph. That's roughly a 9% increase, as a maximum. I haven't measured the typical pitch distance at Defremery, but I'll confidently state it as less than 50 ft.

That said there is a mitigating factor, i.e. when you pitch from closer in you naturally reduce your pitch velocity, which, according to simple Newtonian mechanics (trust me) produces a commensurate reduction in batted ball velocity, all other factors being constant. But are they constant? A reduction in pitch velocity, if it is not commensurate with the reduced pitch distance, gives you more time to look at the pitch, thus making it easier to direct your hit, i.e into the gaps or over the infield. Then again, such a pitch is likely to be of the high, looping kind, which are more difficult to read well due to the extra movement.
End boring analysis
Blah, blah, blah. There's a good reason why analysis starts with "anal".

You see, there are a multitude of different factors, only some of which I have mentioned. My point is that the pitch distance, not the bat material, is the most significant in terms of the reaction time of the pitcher. If we are truly worried about the safety of the pitcher, we should establish a longer pitching distance, and not worry about the bats.

[retep]

End boring analysis
Blah, blah, blah. There's a good reason why analysis starts with "anal".

Hehehehe

[Baseball=Life]

I must be honest---I've had a difficult time remaining interested enough to actually read all the posts in this thread, especially Nick's.


Whom we really need to hear from is Chris Adams, the one person whom has actually been effected by a "come-backer". Remember, he had to get stiches to close up his face because of standing too closely while pitching at DeFremery. [Sidenote: this might be why he didn't want to stand too close to defend against potential bunts when playing defensive Pitcher last week---understandable if you ask me.]

[mp1045]

Defremery is too small to begin with. My vote is: wood bats only there. We all need to get to work on Monday.
http://www.thesportjournal.org/2001Jour ... d-bats.htm


Michael P.
1 HR (DeFremery aided)

[tallguy]

Let's keep to the issue: banning of metal would be to reduce the number of home runs, the safety issue does not apply to us. Why do we feel unsafe at Defremery? Because of the short pitching distance. Let's increase it, and be done with this discussion. Nobody feels unsafe at Curt Flood (and most of us use metal there), do they? Why? because we're 60 feet away, instead of maybe 45.
We can encourage hitters to use wood at Defremery in an unspoken, non-confrontational way: if they use metal, the pitcher (and defensive pitcher if there is one) must take an extra couple of steps back. He will then have to throw a little faster. There is the "penalty" for using metal. That shouldn't be a problem for metal-users, their bats are lighter to swing, after all. If you use wood you get slower pitches, easier to hit. That's your "reward" for using wood.
The pitcher may end up close to second base, but at least he will feel safe!

[tallguy]

Just got my hickory Tallguy bat. You have to see this thing. There are no words.
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Apart from these: cannot wait to use it this Sunday!